Seperating PR from SERPs ranking

[hugoguzman]

It seems like a lot of newcomers to SEO (and even some veterans) have a hard time making the distinction between "visual" PR (the little green bar) and SERPs (search engine ranking for specific terms) for Google as well othe major search engines like Yahoo or MSN.

I just want to make a few quick clarifications:

1)Visual PR calculation is not directly related to SERPs calculation. PR is based solely on the amount and potency of a url's backlinks (relevancy is not a factor, anchor text or metatag content is not a factor, and content is not a factor). SERPs take all of these factors into account (there are most likely close to or more than 100 individual variables) and assign varying degrees of value to each and every one of these variables.

2)Visual PR does affect SERPs. Visual PR is simply a gauge of a sites power or importance on the search engine level. Again, there is a different set of rules applied to it's calculation (as opposed to SERPs calculation). Also, visual PR usually has a lag. For example, we had a universal PR update yesterday but the PR values that have been assigned do not reflect links that may have been aquired in the 1-30 days prior to the actual update (there is not perfect way to gauge this lag, but it can be deduced by using circumstantial evidence...for example a created a new site and aquired a number of a PR 5, PR 6, and PR 8 links for it within the past 7 days but the site is still a PR 0. The next PR update will take these along with any new backlinks into account and increase my visual PR ranking).

3)Lack of visual PR will not prevent you from ranking well in Google SERPs (or Yahoo and MSN for that matter). Unless, you are attempting to engage in selling text link advertising on your site or you want to have more leverage for the purposes of exchanging links, you should not cocern yourself with visual PR. On the one hand, I've had, and continue to have, PR 6 sites that get very little traffic (25-50 unique visitors per day) and don't rank too well for my target search terms. On the other hand, I have PR 4 sites that get a significant amount of traffic (100-200 unique visitors per day) and rank extremely well for dozens of target search terms.

4)Reciprocal links, Directory links, & forum posts will rarely take you past a visual PR ranking of 5. There are exceptions, but for the most part these types of backlinks will help you improve your SERPs position but will not result in a PR 6 ranking or higher. Typically, a site that is powered by these types of links will be in the PR 3 to PR 4 range.

I'm sure that I'm forgetting a few points, so feel free to chime in with others.

Also, if you disagree with any of my assertions feel free to offer your counter argument(s).

[joker]

Hello Hugo.
Some points of disagree:
1)Visual PR calculation is not directly related to SERPs calculation.
Not at all. The last PR update shows some interesting figures and I think that content is a factor.
4)Reciprocal links, Directory links, & forum posts will rarely take you past a visual PR ranking of 5.
I know plenty of websites that gained PR=6,7 and even 8 mostly due to reciprocal links :)

[hugoguzman]

Joker,
I promise you that "visual" PR does not take content into account. You can post a site with virtually no content and as long as you get some potent backlinks your site will shoot up to a PR 6 or higher. "Visual" PR only calculates backlink info (amount of backlinks, and potency).

Also, please post some examples of sites that have gotten those high PRs from reciprocal links alone. I would like to see some tangible evidence. Don't misunderstand me though. I am a big believer in reciprocal linking. However, from experience I can tell you that getting a high PR from reciprocal links (especially a PR 7 or PR 8) is next to impossible. The main reason for that is that you will very rarely get a reciprocal link that is on a PR 6 page or higher.

[eadpro]

Visual PR does not take "on-page" optimization into account nor does it take anchor text content. It only measures backlink info.

That's why you can purchase a non-relevant link ad and increase your PR even if your SERPs don't improve.

[joker]

The main reason for that is that you will very rarely get a reciprocal link that is on a PR 6 page or higher.
The reason for high PR (6,7,8) mainly in the result of link exchange is that link exchange could be conducted not only between directory pages of the websites, but also between index pages and all other pages. :)

[yellowsubmarine]

My question to you would be this. Assuming, that you will need to reciprocate "index" links by putting a link on your index page, why would you want to clutter your homepage with a ton of links just so you can increase your "visual" PR? We all know that visual PR does not translate into SERPs position all the time, and I also believe that even "index" reciprocal links are not as valuable as one-way (non reciprocal) links.

Wouldn't you be better served to just exchange directory reciprocals for the sake of not cluttering your index page and just find some good advertising opportunities on high PR sites to improve your "visual" PR?

[joker]

We all know that visual PR does not translate into SERPs position all the time, and I also believe that even "index" reciprocal links are not as valuable as one-way (non reciprocal) links.

Really high PR (7 an above) does! :)

[reli4nt]

I find more and more site that have rows and rows of text links at the bottom of their pages, clearly not intended for advertising or even for visitors to actually be able to read.

[joker]

I also know a lot of them - and it's very dissapointing...

[yellowsubmarine]

I don't really mind that, I just don't like it when I see a site like that and all the links on the bottom are totally unrelated to content of the site. >:(

[hugoguzman]

Unfortunately this seems to be turning into a common practice, especially in Ebay.

Search for "text links" in Ebay and you will see rows of identical link ad offerings on the same site. Most of those offerings are for non-relevant run of site "footer" links.

[joker]

Search for "text links" in Ebay and you will see rows of identical link ad offerings on the same site.
I think that Google has some filter on the determination of absolutely unrelated site wide links.

[hugoguzman]

I think that such a filter exists for determining SERPs, but in terms of boosting "visual" PR unrelated sitewides seem to still do the trick.

[joker]

I think that such a filter exists for determining SERPs
What do you mean by this. You state that sites with unrelevant site wide links on their pages are filtered from searches on their relevant keywords?

[hugoguzman]

When I refer to "filtering" I do not mean that the sites are filtered out from searches for their keywords.

I am refering to the value of the sitewide backlinks. In other words, when googlebot recognizes that sitewide backlinks are coming from the pages of a specific domain googlebot devalues the "votes" of the individual pages.

Here's an analogy:

Googlebot notices that all pages of a specific domain are "voting" (linking) to my site.

Googlebot decides to devalue or "filter" the votes (links) from all the pages, so that the sitewide links are no more valuable than a just a link from the homepage of the specific domain.

Therefore, the sitewide links are "filtered" so that they are no more valuable than a just a single page link from that same site.

[joker]

And if, for examle, not a whole site wide links availbale, but only links from the group of the pages of the same website (from some part of the website) - will these links be also filtered?

[chris]

I think that if you have just a few links from seperate pages there's not filter.

I'm not sure though.

Maybe try different anchor text pointing to different pages on your own site.

[joker]

I also think so, but ideally this links should have
different anchor text pointing to different pages on your own site.

[eadpro]

I agree with both chris and joker, its just sometimes difficult to convince webmasters to do that for you.

[joker]

Yeah, sometimes it's the main stumbling block :)

[reli4nt]

I agree with both chris and joker, its just sometimes difficult to convince webmasters to do that for you.


Dont they get paid to do a job? Why would they have that control?

[The Source]

Not everyone dealing with link exchanges is "doing a job". Many are small business owners or hobbyists that are too lazy or ignorant or strapped for time to comply with the request.

But if you can get that kind of link it's definitely worth it.

[joker]

But if you can get that kind of link it's definitely worth it.
I also think this kind of links will considerably help one's SERPs ranking. So, go ahead and try to get them!

[eadpro]

If you can spread around different anchor texts and different URLs than go for it, just make sure that you aren't overspending.

[joker]

If you can spread around different anchor texts and different URLs than go for it
As a result of the latest Google update in became even more actual.

[eadpro]

There seems to be rejuvenation of interest in PR.

As I browse through the major forums I notice that alot of folks are incredibly preoccupied with PR rankings, text link ads, reciprocal links etc...

There seems to be much less talk about on-page seo.

[yellowsubmarine]

Yup. there's a lot of Pagerank talk these days.

It's amazing though how many people still don't understand the difference between the PR that shows on the toolbar and real PR.

[eadpro]

every day I see misguided posts in other forums about the SERPs implications of that little green bar.

News Flash! toolbar PR ranking has no direct influence on serps.

It would be cool if we could somehow see our internal PR rankings though. The ones that google actually uses to determine SERPs.

[joker]

It would be cool if we could somehow see our internal PR rankings though. The ones that google actually uses to determine SERPs.
May be if even we able to see the one it won't help us much as think Google oprates with complex factors.